The State of Scrapbook Idea Books

This entry is part 30 of 45 in the series Books & Blogs Review

Do you use scrapbook idea books? Do you prefer physical books or electronic books?

Personally, I prefer electronic books, but the problem I am running into is the e-book description is not always a true reflection of what the book contains and you don’t really know that until you purchase the book. This is not just a problem among the scrapbooking industry, but it is happening in this industry.

A problem I have with physical scrapbook idea books is that they come and go rather quickly. A few of the titles I reviewed last winter are no longer available. Some, like the CK titles were designed to only be available a short time.

Another issue I am having with physical scrapbook idea books is that some authors and publishers are promoting books as “new” when they have been out for a couple of years. I’m sorry, but you can not call your book new if it was originally published more than one year ago. I understand that there was a big shake-up among the publishers with the demise of some of the scrapbook magazines, but changing publishers does not make the book new.

The reason I started reviewing books and blogs was to sort through all the stuff that is out there and share my findings with you. But, because of the problems I am finding with the idea books out there (and their promotion), I think I am going to have to discontinue reviewing books and focus on blogs (and the occasional class). I have a few more idea books that I have already purchased that will most likely be reviewed on here (since I already have paid for them), but unless an idea book is particularly groundbreaking in some way, I don’t think I will be reviewing it here. I am beginning to believe that my time and money is better spent blog-surfing and taking the occasional class instead of focusing on idea books.

Here are the scrapbook idea books I have reviewed so far:

Are there any idea books you would like me to review before I permanently retire the book portion of Books & Blogs? Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

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Stephanie

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Mental Checklists and Scrapworthy Things

This entry is part 17 of 86 in the series Scrapworthy Lives Results

Each Wednesday, I write a post based on my study on scrapbookers.

As a person becomes a scrapbooker, they have a tendency to begin keeping their camera with them (this is even easier now because most of us have cameras as part of our cell phones). Not only do scrapbookers begin keeping their camera with them, but they begin staging photographs for the scrapbook. Even non-staged candid shots might be taken as a scrapbooker works through a mental checklist of photographs that should be taken to make a particular layout. To understand this process, I asked my respondents what they would include on a layout about a child’s first birthday party. Most mentioned they would try to take the following pictures:
Child eating cake (in particular, child with cake all over her or his face). This picture is such a common photograph that one respondent talked about how she had to stage a photo like this for her daughter’s first birthday because her daughter wanted nothing to do with the cake.

Child opening the gifts

Everyone who was there

I do have photos of everyone who was there, but you will have settle for this one. 🙂


The gifts alone
I don’t usually take photos of the gifts alone. Even though they are beautiful, I know this is the type of photo that would end up getting cut from the scrapbook due to space so I don’t even bother with it.

Scrapbookers realize they are working through a mental checklist as they take photographs and mention that “it is a little over the top.” Respondents mention how they would wait to take a picture until other people got out of the way and carefully compose photographs so that they do not have to later be cropped down (e.g., cut down) for the scrapbook.

Scrapbookers are also often on the lookout for scrapworthy objects. One scrapbooker included found items off the street, while most scrapbookers would consider these items to be garbage; they too, use many found objects in their scrapbooks (i.e., memorabilia). Even family members of scrapbookers begin seeing the world as a member of the scrapbooking thought community. One scrapbooker talks about how her son told the orthodontist that he wanted to take his braces with him after they were removed because his mom would want them for the scrapbook. She had not asked her son to do this but he was right, she ended up putting them in the scrapbook. Another respondent talked about how his partner was learning to take better photographs for this respondent’s scrapbook. Not all scrapbookers begin viewing the world as scrapbookers where everything either is or is not scrapworthy, but most seem to at least to some extent.

What about you? Do you work through mental checklists when taking photographs? Are other family members on the lookout for scrapworthy items form your scrapbooks? Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

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Stephanie

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Making Time for Friends

This entry is part 34 of 66 in the series My Scrap Happy Project

In case you were busy and missed the happiness blog hop, here are the links to everyone’s post. Go to mine first if you want to know the details of my giveaway. Thanks for checking it out!
Scrapworthy Lives
Scrapping Mojo
Pie for Breakfast
iStampScraft&Craft
Scraps & Sass
Take a Picture and Remember This
1200 Some Miles
Slice of Life
Our Life with Spiky Potatoes

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How to Scrapbook a Wedding After the Wedding

Natalie from Almost Never Clever, posted about needing wedding album ideas, so I commented about my wedding album, but thought I would share a bit more detailed response here.

It took me awhile because I still can not find the best conditions to photograph layouts in my house. I also couldn’t decide which pages to share. Sharing all of them would be a lot, so I decided to focus on a selection of pages.

Before you see my layouts, keep in mind that we had a slightly unconventional wedding. We were engaged in 2002. After saying yes, I told my then-fiance that I would not be a 20-year-old bride so we had a prolonged engagement. Finally, one day in 2005, I suggested we go ahead and get married at the courthouse. We called our parents and they joined us for our marriage ceremony at a courthouse in downtown Atlanta, with a bunch of other couples. It was perfect.

Most of my family and friends live in Illinois and my husband’s are a bit more spread out so we had a reception a couple of months later in Illinois to celebrate our marriage.

We didn’t take our honeymoon for several more months because I was going to graduate school and teaching so we waited until summer vacation to take our honeymoon.

The scrapbook about our wedding contains the photographs and memorabilia and story of our wedding, reception, and honeymoon.



Because we had a couple of months between our wedding and the reception, I scrapbooked all of our wedding photos and displayed that portion of the album at our reception.







I used this scrapbook as our guestbook, too. I cut up cardstock to the size of business cards and had people write us their words of wisdom instead of a traditional guestbook. If you do this, make sure you have someone who will go around and make sure people have at least signed one of the cards for the album (even if all they do is sign it).



We did not have a professional photorapher for our wedding or reception. We had those disposable cameras for guests to use at each table. I probably would not do that again. If I had to do my reception over, I probably would have hired someone to take photos and maybe create a group on flickr for guests to share photos that they took with their own cameras. The biggest problem with the disposable cameras is they do not work well in the lighting you typically have at a wedding reception.



And then of course, here are a couple of layouts from our honeymoon:







If I had a more conventional wedding with a professional wedding photographe, I would probably do a photobook of most of the professional photos and select just a few of those for inclusion in my wedding scrapbook. I would use the scrapbook to more tell the story and a photo book to more just show the story. Doing a photobook might be good, too, if there are other folks (like your mom or maid of honor) who would appreciate a copy of all the photos but would not then scrapbook the photos. After completing a more unconventional album (post of complete project to appear July 16) and a photobook of our recent vacation (post to appear July 8). I am really thinking my scrapbooking of “events” may have been changed forever. I am really finding doing both formats really appealing with each book having a slightly different purpose.

What about you? How did you do your wedding scrapbook? Or, how would you do a wedding scrapbook? Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

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Stephanie

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A Happiness Blog Hop: Make Time for Friends

This entry is part 33 of 66 in the series My Scrap Happy Project

Welcome to the Happiness Blog Hop brought to you buy Scrapworthy Lives! This is a new monthly hop inspired by The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun and My Scrap Happy Project.

You should have arrived from Our Life with Spiky Potatoes

Our theme is this month is make time for friends. Here is my layout from a couple of summers ago with me and some of my dearest friends:



If you would like to read more about making time for friends check out the following posts:

I am giving away a copy of The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun. To enter the giveaway from Scrapworthy Lives, be sure to comment below! You can earn one entry per blog. So that means if you visit everyone’s blog and comment on each of their blogs, you can get 9 entries! All entries must be posted by Friday, July 8 at midnight Central Standard Time (Chicago, IL, USA). I will ship anywhere in the world. The winner will be announced on Sunday, July 10 on Scrapworthy Lives.

Your next stop is Scrapping Mojo. A complete list of participating blogs is below.

Happy hopping! (And Happy Fourth of July!)
Scrapworthy Lives
Scrapping Mojo
Pie for Breakfast
iStampScrap&Craft
Scraps & Sass
Take a Picture and Remember This
1200 Some Miles
Slife of Life
Our Life with Spiky Potatoes

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This Week on Scrapworthy Lives: July 2, 2011

This entry is part 16 of 47 in the series This Week on Scrapworthy Lives

Each Saturday, I provide a compilation of links from the week’s posts.

Ten Ways to get more out of Scrapworthy Lives:

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  9. Share a great article you find with your friends. Tweet it, facebook it (is that a real expression?), email it, save it and so on. Just look at the link at the bottom of each article to share it in the way that suits you best. I appreciate it!
  10. I joined the crowd and am now on Pinterest. Follow me if you’d like. If you want an invite, email me at stephaniemedleyrath at gmail dot com and I’ll send you an invite.

Stephanie

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Five Questions for Tammy of Your Memory Connection

I decided to interview Tammy of Your Memory Connection because she is consistently posting articles about how to use your stash, which is something I am working on as part of my quest to limit my scrapbooking purchases. With out further ado, here is our interview:

How did you become a scrapbooker? Do you do mainly traditional (paper) scrapbooking or do you do any digital scrapbooking, too?

In 1999, I was visiting a good friend and she showed me this new “scrapbook” she was working on. She combined her photos with memorabilia and commentary all on one page. I’d always been a keeper of movie tickets, concert reviews from the newspaper, theme park maps, post cards, etc… and they were wasting away in static cling albums. I’ve always been a picture taker and I had a ton of photo albums to prove it. I’ve always written in private journals too. All the elements were there but it never occurred to me to put it all together until I saw what my friend was creating.

When I returned home, it didn’t take me long to head to Michaels where I loaded up on scrapbook albums, page protectors, paper, scissors, pens, etc… I also discovered Creating Keepsakes magazine, got a subscription and that’s how I learned to scrapbook.

I am primarily a traditional paper scrapbooker. I do use digital elements that I print and add to my layouts, but I do not do any digital scrapbooking. I love to look at other’s digital creations, but I have no desire to scrapbook on the computer. I want to play with paper!

On your About page, you write, “Your Memory Connection will help you sort through all that scrapbooking goodness to find strategies and a process that works for you.” How do you sort through all the scrapbooking goodness? Do you have any suggestions for brand new scrapbookers venturing online for scrapbooking information?

I see a ton of blogs where people share pretty pages and all the new products they buy but I don’t see many sharing practical strategies on how to get things done and how to do things differently. Sometimes I just have something fun to share, but most of the time, my posts and articles take one of the many scrapbooking tasks and show that there are a variety of ways to do something and it’s OK to change things up.

I’m not really about ground breaking ideas – I’m more about reminding people of things they might have forgotten about. Sometimes it’s just reminding people about supplies in your stash, or reminding people of ways to scrapbook stories when we don’t have a photo, or reminding people that it’s OK to scrapbook photos just for fun. I like to show a bunch of different ways to do something so that people can sort through the ideas and find one that works for them.

For beginners out there searching for information I would say take it slowly. Because there is so much out there to learn, it’s going to take time. What is it about scrapbooking that interests you? Is it preserving photos? Is it writing stories? Take that idea and find information and ideas about that. Pick up a scrapbooking magazine or two and when you see something you like, go research that technique or look for YouTube videos to teach you how to do it. It’s better to find information on something specific rather than just the broad, general idea of “scrapbooking.”

I really enjoyed your recent post on using chipboard. I have a plastic shoebox full of chipboard but I rarely use it because I usually do something like glitter it or paint it. If I don’t feel like making such a mess or waiting for it to dry (which is most of the time), I just skip it. I’m so glad you posted a page with naked chipboard! I am so going to do that the next time I want to use chipboard. How do you decide what item from your stash you are going to use in a bunch of different ways to give readers ideas as to how to use their own stash? Do you select the item and then make the layouts?

Typically I just look around my scrapbook room at all the products I’ve amassed and until I find something I haven’t used in a long time. I might see something in a magazine that triggers an idea (like rubons!) but mostly I just go through my stuff until I find something I want to use.

I’ll then brainstorm, come up with ideas, and then I’ll create new projects. If I have an older project that can illustrate an idea I’ll use it, but I do prefer to create at least 1 or 2 new projects for each Use Your Stash article. Because that’s the point – actually using it! It’s also important to me to show ways other people use it so I’ll link to or show public gallery layouts that I’ve found. I really want to get people to think about what they already have and how they can put it to use. One idea won’t work for everyone but with five ideas, someone is going to be inspired by something.

Use your Stash is the main reason I wanted to showcase you on my site. I am definitely in this mode in my scrapbooking life and am highlighting my goal of using my stash and limiting my scrapbooking purchases in my Minimalist Scrapbooking series. My goal is twofold: use my supplies and save money. Why did you decide to start this series?

Use Your Stash came about because I have a room full of products that I’ve collected over the past 10 years that I usually forget to use. It was a solution to one of my own problems – getting more older product off the shelf and onto a layout. Most of what I see in the magazines and what the popular scrapbook designers are doing is focused on new product. New is great, new is inspiring, but that does not help me use up stuff I already have. I have older stuff in my stash, chances are others do too and could use ideas.

When I come up with ways to combine the new stuff with the stuff I’ve had forever, it helps minimize the guilt. I hate feeling guilty about buying new products, but like most scrapbookers, I buy much faster than I consume. I do buy LESS now, because I most likely have something in my stash that is going to work just as well as something new I might buy. Plus, there are so many products and techniques now that can help us alter products or repurpose them.

Back in the olden days (you know, like 7-10 years ago), you had to go to your local scrapbook store to get the best supplies. You had to go there for most of your scrapbooking education. Today, you can get it online. I think the newer problem scrapbookers face is buying a bunch of online classes and memberships and then not using them. What advice would you give scrapbookers to select which classes and memberships to purchase and which to ignore? (You don’t have to say, buy this or don’t buy that one…I’m just wondering about your process).

Honestly, I think that’s something that we develop over time. Even though access and exposure to the information is instant, it takes time to figure out you like and what you don’t like. I would encourage beginners to take different classes because you don’t know what you are going to enjoy until you give it a try. But don’t do everything at once. If you are taking an art journaling class, don’t take an intense photography class at the same time.

My advice to new scrapbookers is to buy products based on specific layouts and projects you want to create – especially when it comes to seasonal products. Just because Halloween is going to come along next year does not mean that huge pack of Halloween paper will get used next year. Only buy enough to complete the one or two layouts you have in mind.

The worst mistake a new scrapbooker can make is to go into a scrapbook store or a craft store and buy a cartful of random products. It takes time to develop your own style. If you have a local scrapbook store nearby, you can give products and techniques a try in the store before you buy anything. If you don’t have a store nearby but you want to try a new technique, buy only one of what you need. Don’t pick up 7 bottles of glimmer mist just to find out you don’t like how the paper curls up when it gets wet. Just buy one bottle and try it out on different things. If you like it and find you use it, then you can start your collection.

Thank you, Tammy for being interviewed!

What did you think of our interview? Should I interview more scrappy people? Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

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Stephanie

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Books & Blogs: Online Scrapbook Education

Each Thursday I review a book or blog related to scrapbooking.

Recently, I’ve taken a few online scrapbooking classes. I had every intention of reviewing each of the courses individually, but think I will review them collectively so that I can point out what works and what doesn’t work in online classes overall.

Scrapbook On the Road from Ali Edwards

I really enjoyed this class, which should come as no surprise to those of you who read regularly (thank you!). Honestly, the class topic really isn’t anything earth-shattering but the delivery is fantastic. The pdfs were well-done as were the videos. At $14 it was inexpensive yet provided great value. Even though Ali presents the class as a travel scrapbook, you really could use the information to create any sort of made from scratch scrapbook for another purpose (and I might just do this for Week in the Life). I like that this class is self-paced plus. What I mean is that it is self-paced plus there is a flickr group dedicated to the course. This way you (in my opinion), you get the best of both worlds: you can work at your own pace yet still get a connection with your classmates.

Would I take another class from Ali Edwards? Yes, without a doubt.

Big Picture Classes Pro-Press Releases by Nancy Nally

This is the only class I have taken from Big Picture Classes. I love their topics and would like to take some more of their classes but haven’t due to time constraints. I did take the time to take Pro-Press Releases by Nancy Nally because I am working on my first e-book and want to know the details on the best way to publicize this e-book within the industry. With your class purchase, you get e-mail contact with Nancy. I had a question and she got back to me by the next day. Overall, I think the class works.

Would I take another class from Big Picture Classes or from Nancy Nally? Yes.

Spring Training from Ella Publishing

I have mixed feelings about Spring Training from Ella Publishing. On the one hand, I liked their approach of focusing on different aspects of scrapbooking (e.g., photography, technique, writing). I also liked that the videos were short. The promise was that you would be able to participate each day even if you only had about 20 minutes. This they delivered. I did learn something from most of the videos.

What I didn’t like was that the video-quality was poor on more than one occasion. One video had construction noise in the background. In that instance, the instructor should have gone elsewhere (i.e., someplace quieter) to make the video. Some background noise is acceptable, but this was unacceptable. In a couple of the other videos, the layouts that were shown were cut-off in the video. This was frustrating one time, but when it happened again, I began to feel ripped-off.

To be fair, (to my knowledge) this was Ella Publishing’s first go with producing an online class. They did some things right (I think the price was fair and the breadth of topics was great), but there is definitely room for improvement.

I would like email reminders about the class because new content was made available on their site each day for the duration of the class. They took a chance by making you go to the classroom to get the content instead of doing email delivery, but I would prefer email summaries of the new content or the very least reminders that new content has been posted (perhaps students could choose which option they would like in future class offerings).

The deals offered as part of the class were either confusing ($5 off coupon for another purchase upon signing up…except I didn’t find the coupon until I logged in when the class started and it had already expired!!) or not worth my time (For me, saving a $1 off an e-book wasn’t worth the time it would take for me to go through the purchase process. I’d rather buy several things at once. I realize this is my personal preference and others might have been really excited to get the discount.)

Unlike all of the other classes I’ve taken, they did provide a feedback mechanism. However, I never received an email telling me about the survey, which makes me question how seriously they wanted feedback. I happened to login for another reason and saw they had a survey about the class. Again, they offered a $5 off coupon for completing the survey. Of course, it had already expired by the time I even realized there was a survey. I emailed Ella about my frustration over the coupon and Angie Lucas did send me a $5 off coupon code to compensate (thank you). Ella Publishing needs to do a better job at communicating to students in their classes. Perhaps I just missed all of their emails about the new content on each day of the class. Perhaps I just missed an email about the survey. Today (June 22, 2011), I checked my trash and there was nothing about the survey. The survey was available until May 31. Why didn’t I get an email reminder about the survey?

Overall, I think the content was good (not exceptional), but the communication was poor. Would I take another class from Ella Publishing? Maybe, I think I would if Ella communicates to its students the steps they are taking to increase the quality of the videos and improve communication with students. Without this step, I probably will not take another class from them.

(I know on Paperclipping I said I did not want to name the class I was disappointed in, but I decided to do it because I am an affiliate for Ella Publishing and know at least one person bought the class through me. I also knew I wanted to review the classes I have been taking and have told you before that I signed up for this class. I decided I needed to talk about it even if what I had to say wasn’t pretty. I did not use an affiliate link in this post.)

Blogging for Scrapbookers and Beyond Blogging for Scrapbookers from Shimelle Laine

I did enjoy both Blogging classes from Shimelle. My problem comes from that my blogging purposes seem to be a bit different than the blogging purposes of many of my classmates. That’s fine. It was nice to connect with other people who both blog and scrapbook even if we blog for different reasons. But this is important, because most of the content was geared towards the other type of blogger (those treating their blog more like a scrapbook and/or using it as a place to showcase their scrapbooking rather than using their blog for potential income). I found more of the content in the second class more relevant to my purposes.

That being said, I do think the classes were worth my money. Both sections were $15 each and Shimelle provided a couple of bonus videos after the class ended. The videos were of high quality. I would have liked a pdf of the content from the videos as well, because though the videos were short (about 10 minutes each), I like to skim pdfs and can do that much more quickly (I know a lot of folks love video, which is why I would like to have both options).

My real complaint (and I know this is not unique to Shimelle’s classroom model) is that the chatroom was overwhelming and there was open enrollment. I teach online and in-person classes at a college for a living. I think classes that are taught “live” should have a cut-off date for enrollment. I also think there should be limited enrollment. I would pay a premium for limited enrollment. Right now, I am teaching two sections of Introduction to Sociology. There are 28 students enrolled in each section. Could they be combined, yes, but you would lose a lot by combining the two sections. It was great to get a 100 or so new RSS readers to my blog, but it isn’t worth it if most simply just mark “all read” and then unsubscribe a short time later because they are so overwhelmed by all the new posts in their feed. I would prefer 30 new subscribers who will actually take the time to read my blog, than 100 that mark “all read” and move on.

Would I take another class from Shimelle? Probably.

What do you think about the online scrapbooking classes you have taken? Have you taken any that I mentioned? What was your experience? (Please keep your criticism constructive. Thank you!) Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

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Stephanie

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Becoming a Scrapbooker

This entry is part 15 of 86 in the series Scrapworthy Lives Results

Each Wednesday, I write a post the comes from my study about scrapbooking.

Ultimately, once someone becomes a scrapbooker, they begin viewing the world through the eyes of a scrapbooker, as a member of the scrapbooking thought community (or subculture)—dividing their world up into the scrapworthy and the not scrapworthy. One respondent articulates this point:

Like we used to go on vacations before my mom scrapbooked and we took very little pictures and now we go places just to take pictures [laughs]. It’s so silly and like they—I don’t know my brother and my dad—they’re teasing us about it but they’re really not teasing us—they’re saying, ‘I’m glad that you love us enough to take 5,000 pictures at Disney World®,’ which we did. We took 5,000 pictures [laughs].

Because they are going to create a scrapbook about their trip to Disney World®, this respondent and her mom took many more photographs than they otherwise would have taken.

In another case, a respondent took steps to preserve her wedding bouquet in a way that she would be able to include portions of it in her scrapbook. If she had not planned on scrapbooking her bouquet she would not have taken care to preserve it like she did.

Goodsell and Seiter (2010:23-24) also find this to be true in their study. They state:

Occasionally a picture will seem posed, but Deborah insisted that she would not put a baby onto someone’s lap to create a photo opportunity. Instead, she carried the camera with her so that she was ready when a particular moment happened.

Scrapbookers, like photobloggers (Cohen 2005), become open to photo opportunities in their everyday life and now there is a place to showcase and share those photos. One scrapbooker is sure to throw her tiny digital camera in her purse when she wants to be sure she has one handy. Another respondent, who only began scrapbooking nine months before our interview, was not regularly a photographer. She took pictures of special events but did not usually have her camera with her. She says:

I am thinking about it more [taking her camera with her] than I would have been in the past like before I started scrapbooking. And when I think about it, all I think after an event is like, oh, I wish I had taken pictures. Now I think, okay, I have to remember to take my camera. And I might still not even remember to take pictures, but it still has changed my mindset somehow that I do think I am trying to keep a record of things that happened.

This respondent talks about how she tries to remember to take her camera with her more often especially for the things that are not as special (e.g., dinner with friends). Scrapbooking is changing her photography habits. Scrapbookers are more likely to carry their camera with them once they become a scrapbooker if they were not already doing so.

So at what point did you first begin identifying as a scrapbooker? Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

References:
Cohen, Kris R. 2005. “What Does the Photblog Want?Media, Culture & Society 27(6):883-901.
Goodsell, Todd L. and Liann Seiter. 2010. “Scrapbooking: Family Capital and the Construction of Family Discourse.” Bringham Young University.

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Stephanie

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In Case You Haven’t Heard…My Appearance on Paperclipping Roundtable

I was so honored to be invited to appear on last week’s episode of Paperclipping Roundtable and talk about my dissertation.

The whole experience was a bit nerve-racking as I knew there would be some discussion about my dissertation. I didn’t know the whole show was going to be about my dissertation until I received an email the day before we recorded with specific topics to address.

I know hearing the word dissertation can make you shudder or put you to sleep, but have felt all along that if people just gave me a chance, they would find my study interesting, too.

I’m so glad that even if I bore some, there are people out there that both appreciate the work I’ve done and want to hear about it. Thanks for listening!

If you listened, what did you like/dislike about this episode? Comment below or join the conversation on facebook or twitter.

Want a free copy of The Scrapworthy Lives Guide to Minimalist Scrapbooking? Sign up for the newsletter and it is yours!
Stephanie

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Posted in The Paperclipping Roundtable, Dissertation | Tagged , | 4 Comments